Athens, 10 December 2009

Mr. Paikos: The European Council is opening its proceedings; Prime Minister George Papandreou is also travelling to Brussels today, Alternate Foreign Minister Dimitris Droutsas has been there since the day before yesterday for the Council of Ministers. Mr. Minister, good morning.

Mr. Droutsas: Good morning to you and your listeners.

Mr. Kottakis: Good day. You’ve been through a lot in these negotiations; I think Mr. Miliband asked you yesterday whether you were still talking to him. Is what we read in the papers true ?

Mr. Droutsas: Things were somewhat like that, I can’t hide that it was a particularly difficult Council; negotiations were tough.

Mr. Paikos: Were the negotiations tough in terms of preparing the FYROM issue, i.e., for there not to be a [start] date and to move ahead in this vague and general manner, or in terms of Turkey, a matter on which we didn’t insist much?

Mr. Droutsas: I wouldn’t say that, but both matters were on the agenda. Particularly tough negotiations were held on both matters. With regard to the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia let me stress that there was indeed a particular effort on the part of the Presidency to give them a date for the start of accession negotiations now already.

Mr. Paikos: For March.

Mr. Droutsas: No. The initial thought of the Presidency was to give it immediately.

Mr. Paikos: Right.

Mr. Droutsas: On this point we reacted immediately. We reminded them of the line we had declared from the outset, that there cannot be a start of accession negotiations with Skopje without the prior resolution of the name issue. We made that clear.

We avoided these efforts, we clearly noted that on the name issue, the prior resolution is a necessary element. And I think that we can be particularly satisfied also with the fact that we avoided these efforts and we made our position clear.

Mr. Paikos: Even the reference to March under the Spanish Presidency.

Mr. Kottakis: Mr. Minister, alright about Skopje, but with regard to Turkey – given we had even heard insinuations about a veto – things did not develop in the same way. That is, Turkey again went past this December date and it will be evaluated once again in one year, without particular “resistance” – you can dispute that if you want - either by Greece or by Cyprus.

Mr. Droutsas: Before we go into the Turkey issue, just allow me to make something clear about the Skopje issue, because you also mentioned the March date earlier. The Presidency’s second effort was to set a so-called date for a date, that is, to say that in March the decision will be made on setting the date for the start of accession negotiations with Skopje. And we avoided that.

Mr. Paikos: Indeed.

Mr. Droutsas: But we said – because it is in our interest as well – that the issue of the start of accession negotiations with Skopje will be reviewed under the next Presidency, i.e. the Spanish Presidency. Why am I saying that it is also in our interest? Because pressures will be put –and if you want, I will use a more positive word – an incentive will be given to Skopje to finally come to the table of negotiations under the UN, in a constructive manner with a view to resolving the issue.

Because we want to resolve the issue, but I want to stress that we have a national red line, which to us is our negotiating line, from which we will not diverge. This is just to clarify things and avoid misunderstandings.

Mr. Paikos: Yes, yes, you did well.

Mr. Kottakis: Let me repeat the question on Turkey. Because Mr. Erdogan went to the United States the day before yesterday and met with President Obama, and at a time when we are the ones evaluating his stance on issues of minority policy and human rights, he came and – if you allow me to use the term – told us off about the Muslims in Thrace.

And despite all that, we still do not obstruct their accession course, at least in terms of the conclusions of the General Affairs Council.

Mr. Droutsas: First of all, allow me to clarify the issue of Mr. Erdogan’s reference to the Muslim minority in Thrace. On this point, I think our answer was immediate and the Prime Minister himself was given the opportunity at the press conference he gave within the framework of the OSCE Ministerial Council in Athens to stress it clearly, and yesterday, at the press conference I gave, I immediately answered on that in order to put an end to this story.

Mr. Kottakis: You did very well.

Mr. Droutsas: Turkey, and any Turkish official, can of course say what they want, we said it clearly, we are not discussing issues regarding the Muslim minority – i.e., issues regarding Greek citizens – with third governments. It is a clear position, we’ve said so repeatedly. I think that Turkey can say whatever it wants to say, whenever it wants to, but Greece and the Greek people should listen to what the Greek government is saying – and it is crystal clear – on this issue.

Mr. Paikos: Indeed, the official Greek positions.

Mr. Kottakis: Clearly.

Mr. Droutsas: Now, with regard to Turkey’s accession course and the Council and the negotiations at the Council. Here we must never forget that there is a history, there are preparations before such issues reach the table of negotiations.

As we repeatedly stressed and stated, also regarding Skopje, we are dealing with a Presidency that has completely opposite views from Greece.

Mr. Paikos: Right.

Mr. Droutsas: And this is an issue that we should take into account. I’m saying that we can feel very satisfied with the outcome, the conclusions of our negotiations at the latest Council with regard to Turkey. Because, first of all, we avoided very negative proposals and phrases that had been suggested a long, long time ago – and I stress that – even before the current government took office.

Mr. Paikos: Such as, for instance?

Mr. Kottakis: Do you mean the phrase about bilateral differences?

Mr. Droutsas: Exactly. The Presidency, supported by some member states which I will not name, as it wouldn’t be right to name these countries, but I think we all know them - had clearly suggested that bilateral problems should not obstruct the accession process of any candidate country.

Mr. Paikos: Right.

Mr. Droutsas: This is unacceptable to us, as you understand. This was a very significant threat both for Greece and for Cyprus and our national interests, and the first important achievement was – despite the great pressures that existed – its removal from the conclusions.

Mr. Paikos: It was indeed removed.

Mr. Droutsas: Indeed, it was removed and this is very important, and we should not forget it.

Mr. Paikos: We saw Turkey protest about the outcome of the Council on this point precisely.

Mr. Kottakis: This is an indication that we did well.

Mr. Paikos: Does this mean that we did well?

Mr. Droutsas: Look, I think that this can also be used as an indication, but objectively I think that the conclusions are to our benefit. You will allow me to mention a couple of other incidents, as we, in Greece, like to discuss what goes on behind the scenes. These two incidents also show that the conclusions have indeed upset certain people.

First of all, something you also mentioned earlier, i.e., that the Turkish side has itself reacted with its announcements, in which it expresses its disappointment about the wording and strictness of the conclusions.

But I also want to mention another incident: my British counterpart, the UK Foreign Secretary, did not show up at the final meeting when, following tough negotiations, we reached a compromise solution that everyone applauded later on. The British Foreign Secretary chose not to come to the room so as not to agree to the conclusions in person.

Mr. Paikos: You see now that it was impossible for you to avoid naming these countries?

Mr. Droutsas: Look, I think that we can do this, on certain issues that are already well known.

Mr. Paikos: Surely.

Mr. Kottakis: Minister, I would like to ask you to help us because me and Vassilis [Paikos] disagree on something. We were discussing earlier Mr. Papandreou's view that the government debt is undermining, it threatening our national sovereignty and I was saying that this might be true, but the Prime Minister himself is not allowed to say it. It was very bold to say what he said. Is Mr. Paikos right to disagree with me?

Mr. Paikos: I believe that it was bold, but in the sense that it needed courage for the Prime Minister to say this, and that of course he was right.

Mr. Droutsas: You'll allow me not to go into you personal disagreement, but let me just say this: I think that the great majority of the Greek people gave its vote of confidence to this government, precisely because it expects bold words and actions from this government, it expects clear words, for us to say things as they are, and not hesitate to look at things in an open and clear manner and take the necessary decisions.

I think it is within this framework that the Prime Minister himself should say the truth to the Greek people, using clear words and saying how things stand. And I think this is precisely what the Prime Minister did.

Mr. Paikos: Now, you give me the opportunity, before we thank you for this talk, Mr. Minister, to ask you whether –in the negotiations you had – not just these past three days, but in general – whether you saw that our diplomatic capital has shrunk a little precisely because of our financial difficulties and our dealings with the Europeans regarding financial issues.

Mr. Droutsas: Clear words, Mr. Paikos and Mr. Kottakis: of course the country's financial situation does not facilitate our handlings on our foreign policy. Every reasonable person can understand that.

Mr. Paikos: Right.

Mr. Droutsas: But I want to stress that this government said for the very first moment that we are coming out with an aggressive foreign policy – in the positive meaning of the word, of course – by taking initiatives in order to give back to Greece the voice it deserves to have; in order to show the way on foreign policy issues. This is why we have this aggressive policy with initiatives.

And I want to say that I believe that the conclusions of the latest Council on these very serious issues for Greece have already shown that we are on the right track, not just that there is understanding on Greece’s positions, but also that our partners see that there is a Greek government that takes things in its own hands once again and shows the way. This is, in my opinion, a very, very positive element.