Athens, 20 February 2010

Mr. Spiliopoulos: We are happy to have Alternate Foreign Minister Dimitris Droutsas here with us, and we want to ask him as many questions as possible. We were talking about what went on in the wings at the Summit Meeting …

Ms. Douvara: Precisely. Since you accompanied the Prime Minister to the Informal Summit Meeting, and we saw that he was particularly concerned following the meetings, we would like you to describe the climate as you felt it.

Mr. Droutsas: Last week’s informal meeting of heads of state and government in Brussels was a particularly critical and important moment for Greece and – I dare say – for Europe itself, for the Eurozone, for the euro. Because it was the first time that the European Union, the leaders of the European Union, took an important decision about the euro, regarding the support of the euro and, of course, of Greece and the Greek economy.

There was a very serious discussion. We had prepared very thoroughly for this meeting, and I think that the results, the joint statement of the heads of state and government, was the right text at the right time.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: But the reply to that, Mr. Minister, is that while we they did promise you that they will be with us when we need them, no one has  told us the manner in which they will be with us when we need them. Will they give us money? Will they support us by buying Greek bonds? No one has understood what form this assistance they are going to provide will take.

Ms. Douvara: There is a lack of decisiveness. And the result of that is that if the EU does not make its intentions known with regard to the measures it will take to support the Greek economy, the markets won’t quiet down and the cost of lending will not go down in Greece. Why are they dragging their feet? What are they waiting for?

Mr. Droutsas: The most important thing for us was for the European Union and the leaders of Europe to send a clear political message of support for Greece. A message of support for the measures that the Greek government has taken; support for the credibility of the Greek government and Greece. That was what we wanted, and that was what we pursued and got.

To be perfectly clear, Greece – the Greek government – has not asked for any economic assistance from our partners. We don’t need that. We have submitted a very serious stability and development programme. A programme that was accepted by the European Commission. That is what we are depending on. The Prime Minister decided on even further measures that we have already taken and are implementing. We are counting on precisely this programme, and what we are asking for from our partners is a clear political message of support for Greece’s credibility.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: Mr. Minister, would you be so kind as to clarify for us what the Prime Minister meant when he said that because of the manner in which we handled our finances and the situation we have come to today, we have lost a part of our national sovereignty?

Mr. Droutsas: It is clear that when you are facing a difficult economic situation, during which all of your partners – as well as the international community and the international news media, unfortunately – engage in a kind of “assault” on your country, level very harsh criticism at you, tell you you must do the one thing and the other, not just the one or just the other. Being confronted like this doesn’t help.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: So, have we lost diplomatic capital as a country?

Mr. Droutsas: I will say very frankly that my job – the handling of foreign policy issues – is not made easier by this state of affairs. But, on the other hand, I want to stress just as clearly that on foreign policy issues, Greece exercises a consistent policy of respect for international law. A policy based on principles that we honor, and it is precisely these principles that are respected by everyone, so our national issues are also respected. And beyond that, I would like to underscore that from the very outset it has been the conscious decision of the government not to stop at simply defending our issues in a defensive manner, but to follow and externalised policy; to take initiatives.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: Where has the new state of affairs made your job more difficult? On what issues has your job become more difficult?

Mr. Droutsas: It is how the conversation starts. Because our collocutor starts the conversation by saying something like, “Tell us what exactly is happening. How are you dealing with the matter?”

I say that with a little humour – the situation isn’t that extreme. I would like to stress once again that particularly on foreign policy issues, Greece – due to the role it has played in the past, as well – enjoys great respect. And now, once again, there are the initiatives that the government has taken from the very outset: “Agenda 2014” for the European perspective of our Balkan neighbours, our renewed opening to Turkey, the will that the new Greek government has expressed regarding an effort towards cooperation with Turkey.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: That’s all well and good. But bear in mind that in a few days – in meetings in Brussels – some Ministers will have to decide on what the course of the Greek economy will be, and we will be on the wrong side of a closed door. Do you feel comfortable with that image? Think about it a little. Decisions will be taken regarding us, and we won’t be present.

Mr. Droutsas: Of course that isn’t the most beautiful of images. But I gave you the specific answer in order to make it clear that the economic situation of the country certainly doesn’t help, doesn’t promote our foreign policy issues. But neither is it an obstacle, because the government has made the right moves on foreign polity issues in order to show the international community that we are here, present – that Greece is in a position to help. Greece is a trusted and invaluable partner.

Ms. Douvara: But you yourself have argued, in the German news media, that our country needs time for the measures to produce results. We can’t get results from one day to the next. But the thing is that the markets aren’t waiting, and the European Union is asking us for a second package of measures without having seen whether the first package will produce results.

Mr. Droutsas: Exactly. That is the problem we are facing, and it is precisely for that reason that we are trying to convince our partners that Greece really needs to be given some time so that the very serious measures the Greek government has aready taken can produce results; so that the very serious and systematic programme that we have presented can produce results.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: If these measures are effective and it is proven that they will give prospects to our economy, will our country regain any prestige it has lost?

Mr. Droutsas: I am convinced of that. That is exactly the effort we are making; a coordinated effort from all of the members of the government. All of us, in every one of our meetings, and particularly our international meetings, show precisely this image and stress that there is a new Greek government that is fully aware of the seriousness of the situation. We aren’t hiding. It is a serious situation. But from the very first moment, the government has shown that it is confronting the situation in a very serious, very systematic manner.

I am convinced that this will help our country regain its damaged prestige very soon.

Ms. Douvara: The Finance Minister does not rule out the idea of our turning to the IMF, and on the other hand there is the reply from the main opposition party; that is, Mr. Samaras says that that would be damaging for Greece and the Union. It is an acceptance of defeat, because it cannot support a member state, which asks for help from the IMF.

Mr. Droutsas: First of all, let me say clearly that there is no such thought – of our approaching the IMF. But that doesn’t mean – and this is what Finance Minister Papakonstantinou expressed in the clearest manner – that this, too, doesn’t exist as a theoretical possibility. It is an option that will always be on the table, but as a solution in time of direst need.

But I would like to stress once again that there is no such issue. There is no thought of doing that. It’s just that we have to leave every potentiality open. This, too, is an issue that the European Union and our partners must bear very seriously in mind.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: Mr. Minister, just the day before yesterday we had another provocation from the Turkish Air Force, when – in an exercise area Greece has planned and has asked to use exclusively. Specifically, there was a frigate firing rounds at one of those windsocks used by the Air Force for the Navy to fire rounds at, and in this area that had been sectioned off – the exercise zone of Navy and our Air Force – two pairs of Turkish F-16s flew in. This is the fourth time this has happened in the same manner. And right next to us, in Andros, this time.

Mr. Droutsas: Of course, this is an incident that we condemn in the most categorical manner. And all of the immediate, obvious, stern demarches have been made already. But I would like to stress the following: Such incidents do not please us, of course – in fact, they give cause for intense concern. But this mustn’t be a reason for us, as Greece, to say that because Turkey proceeds to such unacceptable and provocative actions, we should sever all contact with that country.

Quite the contrary. It is my conviction that we need to abandon the defensive, passive stance we had, a tactic followed by Greece in recent years, and come out again more aggressively – in the positive sense of the word – to redevelop our relations with Turkey, because this will give us the opportunity to deal with these issues in the optimum manner.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: Was there any danger? Because when the pair of Turkish aircraft arrived, the frigate was firing rounds, and the information and reportage we have read says that the Turks were flying at a distance of just 1,000 meters. That is, the frigate had to stop firing rounds due to the danger of shooting down a Turkish aircraft.

Mr. Droutsas: I think the Navy reacted in a very mature and poised manner, as always, to avoid any negative development.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: So was there any danger …

Mr. Droutsas: Look, such actions always involve a certain amount of danger. And everyone needs to understand, and the Turkish side needs to understand well that such activities – should something happen – will have consequences. Beyond the human tragedy that may occur. And that is precisely why I say that once again we have to speak frankly with Turkey, in clear terms.

Ms. Douvara: Is Greece prepared to put additional issues into the dialogue with Turkey, beyond the continental shelf?

Mr. Droutsas: We have made it clear that we are following the line of Greece’s foreign policy, which is longstanding: For us, the only issue in the Aegean is the delimitation of the continental shelf. That is what we are discussing, and we have stated clearly that if we cannot reach a solution in a reasonable amount of time, we propose our having recourse to the International Court in The Hague on this issue. Because it is a legal issue, and the International Court in The Hague is competent on such matters.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: Your colleague Mr. Chrysokhoidis, because of the repeated incidents of crime – I remind you that just the day before yesterday a 25-year-old lost his life in a Police operation aimed at catching two Albanian criminals – said in statements he made afterwards that there is in fact increased crime and that Albanian criminals are responsible in large part. They have moved to our country and are involved in criminal acts of this kind.

I wonder if the Foreign Ministry, in this context and given that the Minister himself says that there is this problem with Albanians, intends to do anything with regard to the Albanian government vis-à-vis the criminals who cross into our country; who leave the prisons there and come to our country.

Mr. Droutsas: All of these issues are of course on the agenda of our discussions. Provided, of course, we ascertain that such developments exist, in the broader discussions we have with the Albanian side we raise this issues and we hope to reach solutions.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: There is a problem.

Mr. Droutsas: When we witness such incidents, we need first of all to admit that there is a problem in this area. And all of these issues will be dealt with in a systematic manner.

And as this is linked to the major issue of illegal migration in our country, it is another issue that we will raise in our talks with Turkey. So I would like to say, coming back to our relations with Turkey, that it is an issue that we need to raise again in a clear manner, and on which Turkey needs to meet its responsibilities to our country – on a bilateral level – and to the European Union, and cooperate effectively.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: I wonder, these constant incidents with the monitoring done by FRONTEX, the joint European team, to which Greece contributes, mainly in monitoring our coastline, the sea borders with Turkey. Constant harassment, whether from aircraft or radar stations, of Lithuanians, Czechs, Slovenians who participate and contribute. What is the effect of all this in Europe?

Mr. Droutsas: This clearly contributes to our partners’ perceiving and understanding more immediately the arguments we put forward. What we experience on a daily basis, they are now seeing for themselves.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: They are flying with official European maps; they are flying based on international law.

Mr. Droutsas: Precisely. And Turkey itself needs to weigh up whether it is doing itself any good with regard to its European perspective.

Ms. Douvara: This whole story, all this negative criticism we are coming in for from the European Union regarding our economy – how much can this help us in our efforts to gain the support of the EU countries on issues like Skopje and Turkey?

Mr. Droutsas: Once again, I would like to separate these two issues. As I said, the economic situation Greece finds itself in right now is not helping our national issues or my job. On the other hand, however, we have expressed our positions in a clear manner and we have taken initiatives, particularly regarding the FYROM name issue.

Ms. Douvara: The UN mediator is coming to Greece on 26 February …

Mr. Droutsas: Exactly. On this issue, the Greek position, the national red line, has been well known for a very long time now. It is clear and known to everyone. In all the discussions we have had – in recent weeks and months – in all the visits and meetings we have had, I think that we have managed to make our position fully understood. From the very outset, we have been active and taken initiatives, including in our contacts with the Skopje leadership, which took place on our initiative.

Ms. Douvara: Have these recent bilateral contacts shifted the Skopje position on the name issue.

Mr. Droutsas: I would be very happy if I could say that we see a substantial change of stance. But I can’t say that. But I do think that things are being reprocessed internally in Skopje, so that little by little they can understand that the stance they have maintained thus far has not helped the country. This stance may have benefited certain circles personally or politically within the country – the political leadership in Skopje – but it certainly hasn’t helped the people of our neighbouring country.

And this is a point we want to concentrate on: to address our neighbours, public opinion, and remind them of the role Greece has played in the past in the development of their country. Let’s not forget that Greece is still the number one investor in the country and has created and guaranteed tens of thousands of jobs. We have supported, and we want to continue to support, FYROM’s European course, but in a clear manner and on one clear condition: the prior solution of the name issue. This position – our position, the national red line – is well known.

Mr. Spiliopoulos: Thank you very much, Mr. Minister, and good day.

Mr. Droutsas: Good day, and thank you.